Preaching the Gospel. We are reaching out to the community and to the world. We are building powerful relationships, and educating believers in the Word.

To be honest with you, this attitude reminds me of the disciples who came to Jesus saying that there were people preaching who didn’t belong to their number — Jesus pointed out to them that anyone who is not against Him is for Him.

There should be just one standard — are we speaking the Truth? If you’re going to judge my church, don’t do it by the instruments on stage, the songs to which we worship, or whether our pastor is wearing a tie. I rather insist that I be judged by the standard Jesus defined — by our fruit. And I would argue that we are both growing rapidly and growing deeper, and that God is pleased with us.

If you can confront and challenge my church’s practices Biblically, then you have a point. If not, then why are you complaining?

Notably, of course, outside of the European tradition, churches don’t look like what you’re describing. Our sister-church (in Uganda) is attended primarily by people who aren’t wearing shoes, probably haven’t bathed in recent memory, and who love God deeply and passionately.

I’m not sure why you think that we just want to kick people out who have issues about music. This issue has come up, and being in a semi-leadership position on the worship team (and a friend of the worship pastor), I’ve been a part of these conversations.

There are people who find music a hindrance, whether too “beat-driven” or too slow. Too loud, or too quiet. We can’t necessarily please everyone on the extremes. Would it be nice if everyone just worshiped because the songs are worshipful? Of course it would. And, to be honest, that’s not a problem for me. I’m good with “Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence” or “Everlasting God.”

An interesting side note … in their day, the great hymn-writers were not much-appreciated. We look back on them now, and (I would argue, rightly) think that they were great. But many of them were seen in their day much as you’re speaking of modern songwriters.

I’m quite certain that the same God who spoke to David as he wrote Psalms also spoke to the Wesleys, Luther, Watts, and Crosby as they wrote song great hymns. He spoke to Rich Mullins, and He’s still speaking to Lincoln Brewster, Tommy Walker, and my worship minister.

As to your concern about my mother … frankly, why do you blame my church, which is far more active, for the division? My congregation is reaching more people, and I would argue, frankly, that we’re taking people a lot deeper (through a number of study resources) than that of my parents. I could easily reverse the charge and say that it’s people’s insistence on tradition, at the expense of quality, that has caused the division. But I’d rather not even get into blaming anyone … we have real work to do.

You also reveal the fact in your statement you believe that really all churches should be the same to save us from all this confusion.

The writers of the hymns were the contemporary music of their day……It is only Old School / Old Truth now. In 50 years Casting Crowns will be the old school music.

You want church to live isolated in a time warp free form the influences of the outside world.

Many of those hymns were about the struggles that the writers were having at the time they were written. Just like the music of today. You do not have to like it but you can’t seriously make the argument that today’s lyrics are any less relevant our spiritual.

It is not 1950 anymore……..Hey its even ok for girls to wear pants…..and vote!

But Ingrid and I both find loud beat-driven music inconducive to worship. We are offended by it. Even if it comes from an organ. What do you do about it? Show us the door and point us to the road? Hopefully, as a mature and caring undershepherd, you’re going to regulate the tone of the gathered church worship to meet the needs of the general audience.

But what I see in “emerging” churches is a particular sub-group of the general population demanding that their “felt” needs be met. The love of Christ will cause us to say as Paul said “as the world stands, I will not offend my brother”.

Hymns are purposely designed to NOT be folk music. The old churches could have had local troubadours singing folksy music just as easily as today’s churches can do it. But they recognized a greater need - the need for unity in the body of Christ and the need to reflect the majesty and glory of God in the worship. Hymns had a unifying effect because they were generally free of ethnic identity. They constituted the music of the church, as opposed to the music of the street. There is a difference, and you can see it.

I don’t think Ingrid wants you to impress her with your clothes, but she probably wants you to dress as if the gathering of the body of Christ is a sacred event. What you wear tells the world what you’re thinking. It matters and you know it. Now apply that principle how ever you want, but please, do apply it rather than ignore it.

You have to earn respect. There’s not way around it. That’s a life truism. What are you doing to earn it?

You fail to see the problem with your mother going to a different church than you. It’s like saying “my mother and I have a problem but I don’t see any problem with it”. You’ve allowed your music to come between you and your mother and you don’t see a problem. Not doctrine, not unbelief, not distance, not heresy, but YOU let YOUR MUSIC come between you and your mother. And you’re okay with that?

This illustrates a CRITICAL FAILURE of the contemporary church. God set people in families but the modern church breaks them up. I guess since we live in a culture where everyone goes off to their rooms to watch TV or play video games or whatever else, and they never do anything together, then WHY SHOULD THEY HAVE CHURCH TOGETHER?

The more that emergents try to defend their practices, the more they reveal their infidelity to the Bible. I know that’s a harsh thing to say, but I don’t know how to soften it. It just astounds me. Matt speaks of theology as if it were a cuss word. The pastor of Oak Leaf blocks Jim Bublitz’s comments on his blog and then lies about it, saying he was on a plane at the time. And now we find out that it’s more important to have offensive music than one’s own mother in church.

Okay, I admit it: I DO disrespect the contemporary church.

And let’s don’t even start on how foolish it is to “set a goal” for the number that will be saved. Three thousand were saved on the day of Pentecost, and the only one that planned the event was God.

Although the tone of this conversation has been argumentative, it has nevertheless been helpful to me to be challenged in my opinions and I hope you also will see how it is helpful for you to hear your critics. I do admire you for standing up and stating your view. Let’s pray that our understanding will be enlightened.

Since this is just spillover from conversations at your blog and on Old Truth and we are getting away from the OP (Ingrid wants an old fashioned church and so do I), I’ll allow you the last word but then I’ll have to close it down.

I’m on my church’s worship team. In fact, I’m the one who runs the computer in the back putting lyrics on the wall that Ingrid finds so objectionable. I’m not really sure why … I don’t see the verse in Scripture that mandates hymnals.

It’s worth noting that there once was a time that the organ was deemed radical and totally unacceptable. There was a time when only a choir sang, not the congregation. What is now known as traditional is not, in fact, a 2000-year-old tradition.

You’re talking about disrespect, but as I read this letter, I’m trying to figure out whether she has any respect for me. I don’t wear a tie to church, no. But that doesn’t mean that I haven’t combed my hair or bathed. I’m there to worship and serve God, not to impress her with my clothes.

To switch gears … my mother is an organist. She doesn’t like to come to my church, because it’s not her style. I don’t really see where there’s a problem. We respect each other’s faith, and are just glad that we each have a place to worship.

On the other hand, this post shows a lack of respect for contemporary churches … and if someone throws an accusation of being Pharisaical at it, then it might well be deserved. (Which is too bad, I often like when Ingrid has to say.)

Let me put it this way - I’ll give you the right to announce, magnify upon, and give yourselves credit for the number of decisions to accept Christ in your church, if you will give equal time and publicly take personal responsibility for each one of those professors, that you claimed was saved, dishonor God and slander the Gospel of Christ by their apostasy from the faith.

I think the difference for me is that when one of the large or small traditional churches in our town says that they had (X) number of people receive Christ my first instinct is to think man that is awesome. I think isn’t it amazing that God can use so many different types of churches to achieve the same results.

We don’t want someone to just attend our church….If they don’t like it or feel like they can be a part of what we are doing we want them to go to another contemporary or traditional church. Our main objective as a church is to see the 60,000 unchurched people in our community find a church home whether it be ours our someone else’s.

I don’t think most of the folks at Old Truth (that I interacted with) could honestly make that same claim. I don’t want ours to be the only kind of church but I don’t want to have to constantly defend its right to exist and do the mission of God either.

Anything that minimizes the work of the Holy Spirit in my view is probably a bad thing for the Christian Church at large. We as a faith are under constant attack from government, special interest groups, and in the most extreme case radical fundamentalists who would like to see Christianity removed from the earth. The amount of time devoted to tearing down other churches and ministries from these “Theologically Puritan” web-sites astounds me.

For all of the labeling and criticism that the contemporary church movement gets…..We are far more complimentary of our fellow churches that what we get in return. I think that it is far less important for a lost person to understand Calvinism, Arminianism or some other deep seeded doctrinal truth. They need to know that sin separates them from a Holy God and that asking Jesus to save them and repenting of past sin is the way to eternal salvation.

I don’t claim to be the smartest person to ever post a blog but I do care about other people and their choice to follow or ignore Jesus. I am proud of the work we are doing at Oakleaf Church and I welcome all who want to learn more about Jesus and be challenged in their lives.